“I’m Just A Normal PMM Trying To Survive” (with David Lim)
Are product marketers actually marketers, or are they just glorified slide deck designers waiting for sales to bark orders? David Lim—a PMM who's survived Google, HP, and multiple startups—joins the skeleton crew to drop some uncomfortable truths. We talk about earning respect when founders don't have a clue what you do, why knowing your customer's quarterly priorities is a superpower, and what happens when you fight a C-suite exec on product strategy (spoiler: sometimes you get fired). If you've ever been asked to "make that deck pretty," this one's for you.
More From This Episode
The brutal truth: What happens when you don't earn internal respect as a PMM
Why sales teams don't talk to product teams (and how PMMs become the bridge)
The one customer question David asks that unlocks everything: "What are your quarterly priorities?"
David got fired for fighting a founder on product strategy—here's what he learned
Why most founders have zero idea what PMMs actually do (and think you're just a lead gen machine)
The "gut feeling" trap: When executives ignore your research and launch anyway
How to stop rolling your eyes when leadership makes dumb decisions (David admits he's not good at this)
Why working under the product org might actually be better for PMMs
The ultimate PMM flex: Knowing your customer better than anyone in the company
Are PMMs actually marketers, or just the people who make sales decks look pretty?
Time Stamps
00:00 Introduction and Season 5 Kickoff
00:59 Introducing Guest: David Lim (PMM at BVO)
02:36 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?
04:15 How PMMs Earn Respect (Or Get Stuck in the Black Hole)
07:00 What Sets PMMs Apart: Cross-Functional Collaboration
09:45 The Research That Changed Everything (Working Under Product Org)
13:00 Advocating for PMM: Educating Teams on What You Actually Do
16:00 The Metrics Problem: What Should PMMs Own?
20:00 Working with Customer Success Teams (QBRs and Product Feedback)
23:00 When You Know the Customer Better Than Anyone Else
26:00 Understanding Quarterly Priorities (The Detail Most PMMs Miss)
29:00 Customer Advisory Boards and Sales Advisory Boards
33:00 The Struggle: When Executives Ignore Your Research
35:00 David's Story: Getting Fired for Fighting Product Strategy
38:00 Gab's Story: When a Writer Called the Product "Shit"
40:00 Rolling with the Punches (And Why It's Hard)
42:00 In-House vs. Agency PMM: The Respect Difference
45:00 Post-Launch Research: The Key to Proving You Were Right
47:00 The Founder Talk: Setting Clear Expectations
49:00 Understanding the Customer's Buying Process
50:00 Wrap-Up and Where to Find David
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